> DA on first round (Decocked!) On can manually drop the trigger with their thumb but risk exists with that and slide can come back and smash your thumb and fingers into a bloody pulp. This article is not only pure opinion, but a poorly informed and backed opinion. Oh, well. Course Hero is not sponsored or endorsed by any college or university. What major training issues arise from it? Have one pistol with a decocker, not my carry weapon. If you find yourself in a self defense situation where you need to adjust from the DA first shot to the SA for subsequent ones, you will either be in can't miss territory or the fact that your first shot missed when you pull a full mag dump won't be all that significant. document.getElementById( "ak_js_2" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); document.getElementById( "ak_js_3" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Unlock exclusive member content from our industry experts. They are the same. Thats entirely false. Great gun! Ohio Set to Reform Gun Free Zone Penalties? sig p22x series have a firing pin block that only gets lifted if the trigger is pulled. Take alot of what he said with a decent dose of salt. Options mean potential confusion under stress. It was never intended to be carried that way at all times. True. When I finished, I gave the seat a good slam, forgetting that all seats are not created equal. discussions around Walther firearms including but not limited to the PPK, PPK/S, PP, P38, PPQ, PPS, P99, PPX, CCP, PK380, P22, G22, WA2000, VG, G43, G41, MP, CREED, and Q5 Match. For some people its a great idea and a DA/SA gives them that option. Training. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The decocker are away of looking for trouble. Ill keep my DA/SA pistol with no frame safety, thank you too much! When the original concept of a DA re volver was invented a century and a half ago, the idea of mastering the long heavy tri gger pull was never envisioned. Are they accurate under deliberate slow-fire conditions? Nam risu, gce dui lectus, congue vel laoreet ac, dict, ac,nec facilisis. To decock a pistol safely and easily you should: A. This finger will serve as a "hammer block" and will prevent the gun from discharging if the hammer slips while you're decocking it. They are both single action semi automatics. Even my safety models I manually decock. Most early autoloaders were not drop safe with a round in the chamber including the 1911 safety engaged or not. Cooper never did this of course because he wasnt a colonel and he wasnt retired military. Some of them make me afraid, very afraid. Decocking Your Pistol: The Safe and Proper Way The Sigs DA first round, or thumb cocked SA, is the safety, as the same actions are on a revolver. How to Use a Revolver - LuckyGunner.com But I like the option to engage the safety when re-holstering (and then flicking it off after safely holstered). JER (Joint Ethics Regulations), para. I am better informed now, thanks! Yes, you can decock by lowering the hammer with one hand and gently squeezing the trigger with the other. Fact: decockers allow you to have heavier trigger pull. Thanks for reading the article, Chris and Camsdaddy- I feel very strongly that you must understand the equipment and its features. Love it! Third? 1. Glock) they arent known for looking for expensive reliable guns (e.g. Only in SEA did we load with six. I can carry it either cocked and locked, OR as a DA by thumbing down the hammer. Dedicated decock levers like the Sig Sauer P22x series and the CZ D-series pistols are my choice for carry guns. Why do decocker pistols suck? Now true, Ive only had a chance to dry fire it, but I much preferred the DA mode to the SA mode. I pull the hammer full back and then rotate the switch. Proper storage usually requires that the firing chamber be empty and magazine removed; this includes revolvers and semi-auto pistols. Often, the trigger is such a long reach that I have to change my grip between DA and SA with the latter position correct and the former not. Model F decock with manual safety I grew up shooting my fathers Beretta 92 and then shot one in the military. Ive got some friends (one is a navy seal) and they love the Sig P226 and much prefer it over a glock (which doesnt have a decocker). They do make the hammer fall (in most cases). I watched a bunch of videos about how to pull your pistol from a holster and in several of them I saw the gun owner shoot himself with pistols with striker fire. And I can use my nasty decocker to make my trigger pull safe when I want it to be. Frame-mounted decocker is placed within easy reach of shooters thumb. S&W, SIG, H&K, Walther and Ruger (among others) produced vast quantities. A loaded Glock is a fun range toy, carrying one strikes me as an invitation to disaster. Why would they think this is a good idea? Its the best of both worlds. And the hard primer crap is usually just that crap. I got lucky in 1984 when I bought my first plastic gun, the SIG P226. Different strokes for different folks. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. Every single Navy Seal toting a P226 will take exception to your totally useless opinion. If your training is insufficient such that cannot consistently draw without simultaneously violating two of the four rules, youre liable to perforate yourself. Logs can be taken lightly. I have a KSN Golan, Israeli Police trade in. This type of spyware program installed in less than 5 seconds. Bullshit. I have a p89 that I purchased in 92. The gun guys in Poland I grew up with called it a ViS. And simple costs less. i wont even mention the hammer and firing pin blocks; suffice it to say that when theyve worn enough dropping the hammer with the decocker will fire a loaded round. If you train and your muscle memory is set up for flicking off a safety first, then that is fine too. Sure, its easy to remember how your pistol is configured right after youve dropped it into your holster. I was wondering sometimes how safe the decockers are. Is the 1911 Dangerous to Carry? - The Armory Life De-cocker equipped pistols (generally) have an exposed hammer. interesting, cheap pistol, but the penis remover is dumb unless it doubles as a manual safety. De-cocker style guns were common during the 70s, 80s, and 90s. After confirming no threat, conscious action to set pistol back to safe. Ergo, no patent issues. The pistol can only fire when the trigger is pulled - that is the 3 safeties you are talking about. Most anyone sounds like a near-absolute to me. A decocker removes that risk. Just because you or people around you call it something else does not make you or them right. If for no other reason than it brings out the kooks that believe if youre not rockin a striker fired gun that youre going to die, get raped, contract dermatitis, etc. Thanks for the comments everybody. But you want be able to, as most folks (pro or not) know better than to try and draw a parallel between a cocked and unlocked SA or DA/SA auto, and a Safe-action Glock, which was designed to be carried in that manner. You DO realize THAT Taurus was on the recall list Geoff? When it comes to defensive firearms, I prefer simplicity and no extra levers or buttons. Between the DA trigger pull and having proper holsters that cover the trigger and trigger guard, the safety becomes an unnecessary redundancy. Its a very safe system for police duty and concealed carry, because they offer a safeguard against negligent discharges without the ergonomic and training hamperings of a manual safety. I have had a 3913tsw since the early 90s. Agreed, I dont find my CZ P07 to lack anything either. Complete unsubstantiated assertion. People seeme to overlook the fact that we are smarter now from looking at what some smart people came up with back then. The only problem Ive had with it is a chipped extractor, twice, but it doesnt affect it. You never elaborated on that. I much prefer it to using a manual safety, which can easily be forgotten.. I filled out the online registration with Taurus, so I would think if it was one the affected pistols, they would have contacted me. I didnt find them particularly difficult to master and I remember when our range commands were Decock, make safe and holster your weapon after a course of fire. Excellent article. Everything you wrote above also applies to Glocks and S&W M&P models. First pull sucks, the rest not so bad. Actually, Ive had bad primers on training ammo, and the ability of my Jericho to hit that primer again on a subsequent trigger pull has been a definite time saver and advantage. With the underside of the crossbow facing your legs, place your foot far enough into the foot stirrup to keep it from slipping out when you draw the bowstring. certified instructor prior to handling any firearm and be sure to read your owners manual. This step-by-step guide will help you understand how to load, discharge, and clear a pistol safely. FNP-9 is another one; push the lever down, hammer drops, lever pops back up (not act as a safety). this goofy thing is sao with a decocker! With normal firing grip, shooter is unable to reach decocking safety. i spazzed the first time i threw the safety off of a pa63- the hammer fell and i thought it was broken. PPQ 22 decocking: just dry fire, or something else? : r/Walther - Reddit Shooters hand must crawl out of firing position so that thumb can operate decocking safety. People choose other guns for competition, well, because it is competition different tools for different jobs. Yes, they are. A repetitive passage here: Not that the level of training, personnel and mission of the SEALs has much to do with our discussion of individual carry of a handgun for personal defense by civilians. Question is more around why would you want to carry a 1911 decocked chambered when its not really the design. I would tend to agree in that having a bad primer is going to be pretty much non-existent. In my experience most anyone who speaks in absolutes is ill-informed at best, especially when theyre emphatic. > No safety on chambered ready to fire, no safey on, SA trigger pull on all shots. Agreed. but dont know how to operate them. How to Load, Discharge, and Clear a Pistol Safely - A Beginner's Guide When drawn, the trigger is found in its most forward position, and requires a long, heavy press as it mechanically cocks the hammer for the first shot. Besides that the DoD frowns upon the use of military rank for commercial purposes which Guns & Ammo certainly was unless it is clearly stated that the person is retired. Your choice. Heavier yet smooth pull and a single trigger feel that doesnt change from shot-to-shot. If you just pull, and keep your aim through the pull, youre good. He ranks in my book with Fake Indian Elizabeth Warren. The first trigger pull takes a little time to get used to if you are more familiar with striker-fired pistols, but it isnt that hard. Whether you own one or not, whether you find de-cockers a PITA or a boon to your ballistics, a true operator will possess the necessary skills to run the gun. Sigs at least (dunno about others) also is like a revolver in that the gun will not fire unless the trigger is all the way to the rear. As every police department in the nation, the vast majority of our students and now the US military have figured out, de-cocker style operating systems suck. There must be a pause. With drop-safe construction such as Springfield Armory's, the cocked-and-locked 1911 is perfectly safe. Ha-ha! Decock (untilt) pistol and reholster. the decocker lever which stays down and has to be manually lifted is called safety. I too have always felt that the long D.A. the unsubscribe link (where available) in one of our messages. Now a decent DA revodlver isnt that hard to master at self defense ranges of <15 yards. Depends on the model, but not all decocker equipped pistols require extra steps or anything to get wrong during a DGU. There have been cases of people shooting themselves when holstering their pistol because their finger or some foreign object hit the trigger as the gun was going into the scabbard. You can uncock pistols with hammers by holding the hammer and pressing the trigger then let the hammer back down slowly. Glocks have the trigger safety. Just the good shooters, effective shooters, and most instructors. A failure to fire on the first shot is statistically not usually going to be a hard primer, its going to be a failure to fully chamber/lock or other shooter-induced problem. Two Stage de-cockers are usually a lever (not a button). took me a while to trust it. For example, a Beretta model 96G (decock only) looks almost exactly like a model 96FS (decocking safety) and it takes more than a casual examination to note the huge difference between the two. The things just work, and work well! And if you already claim to be superb with the DA/SA, then youre full of.it. Manufacturers needed something marketable that resembled the Hi-Powers operating system, yet didnt invite lawsuits. But in the end theyre all just machines and you can learn how to use them if you can overcome your built in prejudices. This is accomplished with the rifle on the shoulder and in the firing position. It would allow the gun to be used DA/SA. As the mechanism is spring-loaded, no other actions are required. Under the heading Key Takeaways on how to safely clear a pistol, on the last thing to do Quote "Clear the firing chamber of any unused rounds by racking the slide backward" This should be stated to do ONLY after removing the magazine from the firearm. This requires the slide to be racked with the support hand, which may not always be available for the task; one-handed slide-racking can be extremely slow and awkward compared to the simple draw-safety off-fire sequence of Condition One. The Walther PP was introduced in 1929 with a safety/decocker. There are some good DA/SA handguns out there and people that can use them despite what Cooper had to say. this is why I keep the P90 in the baja bug. Calling it a Radom is like calling a Buick a Detroit. In those days lots of people were upset if they saw a pistol with the hammer back in a holster. Personally I ended up not really caring for the safety on my own Jericho. This post was originally published at Fortress Defense Consultants. To each his own, the person most likely to be shot in a ND of a Glock is the guy holding it, no skin off my nose. Hold the grip with your dominant hand and place your index finger (or another finger) from your non-dominant hand between the hammer and the frame. 2. Use the palm of your non-firing hand to pull the slide back and release it to chamber a round. And if you already claim to be superb with the DA/SA, then youre full of.it. I practiced and practice and practiced. I never liked decockers when they came out with them. The comments afterwards make me feel warm and fuzzy. Case three: Jeremy is working or playing? @ Big Mickey I agree. My DA/SA hammer fired gun with Decocker can do: > Cocked and locked chambered ready to fire, with safety on and needing to be flicked off prior to shooting with a SA trigger pull on first round and SA trigger pull on subsequent. If the first trigger pull doesnt matter in terms of stiffness/difficulty, why does the second? In fact Mr. Brownings personal 1911 doesnt even have a thumb safety. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Place a weak hand finger or thumb in front of the cocked hammer, wedging it between the hammer face and the frame of the gun. Its all about training and practice. As others state, it isnt very hard at all to do, and you can practice it dry fire, pulling once with hammer down, and then cocking the hammer for the SA portion of the stroke. My Sig SP2022 has the de-cocker and is DA/SA. I love the pistol. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Yes, I know all the mantra about the human being the final safety, the gun is not at fault the person is, etc. Is she single? The following tips will help you fire a pistol more maturely and ensure that everyone remains safe during the process. Donec aliquet. Okay, now youre not even reading what I wrote, just parroting your fake talking points. I heard about it, but AFAIK, mine was not on the list. Agreed! The basic idea that the trigger is so hard to learn that us stupids in public shouldnt even try and just buy a Glock. The procedure I would use for your CZ is 1)place support hand thumb in between hammer and firing pin, 2) pull trigger to release hammer, 3) hammer falls or is guided gently onto your thumb, 4) release trigger (this engages the firing pin block), 5) slowly pull thumb out gently setting hammer onto the half cock position. Agreed. As far as I know, they werent much of a concern to anyone in the world until the 70s-80s-90s. Absolutely love my CZs, Got 3; a 75B SA, a P01, and a PCR that is my EDC. Next, I modified my quick-draw technique to allow for the long trigger pull to overcome the decock and decided it was an advantagein that the first shot would get the opponent moving and once I knew which way he was moving the next several shots without the decock would be taking that into account. Re: SP-01 and level of safety when decocking the hammer: The decocking version is the safest. This should be practiced until it is well ingrained. Have carried a cocked and locked 1911 since the service. You need to practice and get more familiar with your pistol before you start to feel more comfortable. Firearms Flashcards | Quizlet The decocker allows the hammer to be lowered without the firing pin safety being disengaged. I have a Walther P99 AS with De-Cocker, which was the first I heard of the Device. . And they dont have two different trigger pull weights and travel distances to deal with in stressful situations, or a very long-and-heavy first-shot pull which makes hitting very difficult, comparatively. Point it in a safe direction, then decock. Other systems like Sig and H&K retard the hammers travel and dont fully drop it onto the firing pin. Best know your firearm before you need it. If a firearm registered in your name went missing due to sheer negligence and got misused, be prepared to face severe consequences. The Hi Power was the work-around for the 1911 patents which he no longer owned. Unless youre joking. The result was, in his opinion, that the first shot almost always missed and the second was often a negligent discharge. The Glock has a trigger safety. The latest content straight to your inbox plus an automatic entry to each of our monthly gungiveaways! This is the standard operation of a glock. Thumb under hammer. i do not ever want a longer initial pull. Not 1911 but thats a hard standard to achieve. Once we explain the ins-and-outs of de-cockers to students, we often field two sarcastic questions:Who came up with this? The Swartz system and other systems on recent guns take care of this problem. The Bottom Line. I dont listen to bombastic phonies. Oops, there's been an error. This left me with a live round under the hammer, which I could only access by pulling the trigger on 3 live rounds, then 2 spent rounds, before that live round showed up again (speaking, of course, of tense situation not allowing realigning cylinder). By entering your phone number and submitting this form, Different but again, train what you carry, no? Just point and click! The Decocker gives you more options. You can do the same thing you do with any glock without a decocker. Oh, and SLOW DOWN. Ive seen M9 users out shoot Glock boys easily and Smith 1st Gen guys leave folks in their wake with mouths slack. And from there, you only have to remember to Draw & fire. Beretta (90 series or Px4 series) The latest content straight to your inbox plus an automatic entry to each of our monthly giveaways! Other thumb on spur. So understand that just because somebodys pointing out something its not that theyre being unnecessarily pedantic. I decock the gun every time I unholster it for safety. You make the assertion you defend the claim. The photo of the wz. If that person ever has to fire or even just draw his gun in self-defense, theres an excellent chance that the first arriving police officer will command, Drop that weapon! If they dont comply, theyre likely to get shot. As I said above, if youre good with a DA/SA, youll be great with a quality striker-fired pistol. The Polish wz. Wouldnt trade it for most of the junk around today. tried it, liked i,t bought it in .40 cal. You are a colossal tool and a Glock fanboy with zero credibility. I carried a couple of decocker Smiths a Model 39 and then a 4006 back in the day when they were pretty common law enforcement pistols. Not. . Be sure to remain people up-to-date similar to this. Its truly not that hard, just learn to lock your firing grip and pull the trigger without disturbing the sight alignment- something you should be doing anyway with any pistol platform. But you want be able to, as most folks (pro or not) know better than to try and draw a parallel between a cocked and unlocked SA or DA/SA auto, and a Safe-action Glock, which was designed to be carried in that manner. Embrace it. They dont work like they should. Safety with any firearm resides between the ears, not due to any safety system or the lack thereof. 35 ViS was made IN Radom. He's the author of more than a dozen books and hundreds of articles and has extensive experience as a law enforcement officer, competitive shooter and expert witness. If you are an amateur who hasn't gotten around to learning the ins and outs of pistol usage, we strongly encourage you to take the time to learn how to use a pistol safely. The thumb safety was put on the at the behest of the US Cavalry so that the weapon could be made safe one handed after an engagement. removed; this includes revolvers and semi-auto pistols. . > No safety on chambered ready to fire, no safety on, SA trigger pull on first round and subsequent. Its called the ViS. All true, but you can simply cock the hammer manually. Thoughts on this, or is there another decocking method thats better? In training with such pistols, the realities imposed by the decocker must be recognized and accommodated. Its best not to go around claiming that one is the be-all and end-all, or that another is the devil. I am a novice with pistols. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. But, lets dig into the details of this incredibly popular and long-lived design to decide for ourselves. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. Comments (0) Using the decocker takes the trigger from the light 4lb to a stiffer 9lb. Ive never had any issues. Pistol Safety Flashcards | Quizlet It features a single stage decocking lever. The US Air Force Air Police and Security Police, the essential ground combat arm and law enforcement agency of the USAF, used this method daily for the S&W K-15 .38 cal revolver for decades. He never made the rank of full Colonel but rather Lt. October 8, 2010 By Andy Loeffler filed under All Articles, Handguns, Self Defense Firearms. Message frequency varies. Earlier this year, added a decocker kit to my M9 to convert the manual safety to a 92G springloaded decocker. There is holstering, unholstering, cleaning, storage, among others, and some people dont want a cocked and unlocked gun like the Glock for their everyday activities for the very rare instance that they would actually need to use it, and desire and want that first stiff trigger pull, or carry it cocked and locked. Both the 1911 and Hi Power use the single action/double action, cocked and locked style mechanism; they were quickly becoming the most popular auto-loading pistols of the day. So, the bulk of practice is spent mastering the double action trigger, which is not bad on even stock CZs. I have both a 1911 and a Hi Power and neither are double action. Now I have a Taurus Beretta 92 clone that has a frame mounted safety like a 1911. There is no decision to make when you draw your gun and have a DA trigger pull on the first shot and SA thereafter. Im saying this safety has nothing to do with manual safeties, or with decockers. Fact is, you have the four rules, and you have training.