If you want to teach what you believe is right, do that. First, pastors have to connect the what to the why. A true Church of the living God with Christ as the head will thrive in any situation. We need to change how we see God, not ourselves. Let me first clarify something. His congregant, John Baker, created it with Warrens support. So the Southern Baptist Convention gave it the boot, Q&A: Talking about the Southern Baptist sex abuse scandal with Pastor P.J. I havent contacted the SBC because I am no longer a Southern Baptist, so I would not be taken seriously as an outsider. Of course your theology probably believes that battle is futile because your sovereign uncaring god had already condemned all but those who believe as you to hell anyway. Im supposed to be the one who doesnt have any needs myself. I dont think weve done a great job of understanding our own needs, our own humanity, so weve often tried to live beyond our limits. If there are 47,000 Southern Baptist churches and 20 years from now you only have 20,0000 men who want to be pastors, there are going to be some tough decisions to be made. But now a pastors people listen online to the best communicators anywhere in the country, so theres pressure for a pastor to deliver. Im a pastors wife and mother to 5 children. I know Im just a regular person and havent started my own female-ordaining mega-church, but maybe having access to Gods Word should have been a bit sooner? And praise the Lord! How to Cure Workaholism by Dr. David Murray The Southern Baptist Convention on Tuesday ousted its second-largest congregation Saddleback Church, the renowned California megachurch founded by pastor and best-selling author Rick Warren for having a woman pastor. Saddleback Church has been at the head of Christian news headlines in the last several weeks. I could go on. Without all that information, it certainly is not the Jesus of the Bible. Ive written posts concerning you questions. I think its part of acknowledging our limits; God gives us permission to stop, even though theres still more that could be done. The broken stuff in me has more to do with my burnout and the path Im on than anything else. . But by the end of the 2030s, the controversy will melt into consensus. Youre demanding silence from me with regard to a false teacher, but then you think its totally appropriate to call me names and make accusations because you dont like what I said. I find it incredibly sad when Christians seek to tear each other down. CR also encourages participants to improve their self-esteem and self-image. God bless you! I prayerfully consider what is said to me. Make it simple for them. I have read all of his devotionals (365 of them as I translated them into another language) and they were sincere and enriching for me personally. What drives you to write and answer those above? I suggest you read my post on calling out false teachers. Now let me add one caveat. (RNS) Leaders at Rick Warren's Saddleback Church say a preliminary investigation has cleared Andy Wood, Warren's recently announced successor, of allegations made by a former . But thank you for considering what I wrote and writing a thoughtful comment. The page is reminiscent of a fan page on a boy band website. Also, although you might feel like Im being judgmental, its necessary. For starters, in a previous post I wrote called Your Church Just Might Be A Social Club, I discussed the results of someone listening to 18 hours of sermons at several of the biggest churches in the U.S., Saddleback being one of them. It happened in the wake of Saddlebacks determination as an autonomous local church to ordain female ministers not as senior pastors of the church, but as associate ministers of the church. A church can be large, successful, and led by a world famous pastor and not be the ideal. Julie, Thank you for posting this and calling this out. For example, God didnt condemn anyone to Hell. But I find it likely that Rick Warrens retirement makes it easier for people who have long wanted Saddleback out to pursue it. The notion that women should be silent in church, found in 1 Timothy 2:12 and 1 Corinthians 14:3, refers specifically to instances of the church and marriage. If youre curious about who I am, you should read my testimony. expressed some concerns, but most recognizable names were positive. 1.) Warren uses a lot of Bible verses in The Purpose Driven Life, but he consistently engages in eisegesis. In addition to the excellent help that Lance shared in his interview, you might be interested in reading the following CareLeader.org articles: Well, CR is the icing on the cake of this hot mess we call Rick Warren ministry. It was a very typical Monday morning on November 2, 2020. The webpage has resources for discipleship and ways to plug into a Saddleback church. So what about Methodist Church, Gay woman Pastors? An anxious wife. Thank you for commenting! The Beatitudes are generally accepted as descriptions of the character of Gods kingdom. Saddleback Pastor Rick Warren announces search for his successor: 'Timing is everything'. There were some churches that had hired or elected females as their senior pastor. It also features the stories of over 75 everyday people whove applied biblical principles to heal from grief. Im not hammering anyone. First, congratulations on your recovery. 3. My personal rule of thumb is that if the church, book, etc. In Matthew 5:8 Jesus is addressing the Pharisees teaching that following the Law would save you. I will be praying for you. May God bless you and continue to use you. His battles with the church arent over, How Palm Springs ran out Black and Latino families to build a fantasy for rich, white people, 17 SoCal hiking trails that are blooming with wildflowers (but probably not for long! Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information, Saddleback Church ordained women. The crowd and energy of an event can feed all kinds of off the cuff comments that dont work out well. Witnesses offer conflicting accounts, Mars Voltas lead singer broke with Scientology and reunited with the band. Yes Julie, you are allowed to have ones opinion, but Julie, is it necessary to make an entire post about it? All that means is Rick Warren does a poor job of interpreting the Word. It sounds like Warren based his church on fundamental biblical principles, so what can I say? Without looking at the context, these verses seem overbearing. Im actually sad that he is so liberal and strays from the gospel. Im pondering your post, not pounding it. By the same logic, you should probably refrain from commenting on someones blog post It doesnt make sense, you know? If you, however, find theres a lack of content you want to read, then I suggest you start a blog and share what you want to see on the internet. As part of its release, we decided to turn it into a campaign in our church and around the country. Christians cant even peacefully agree on a Bible translation, but millions will read and love this book? Although a valid right of yours to disagree with me, it doesnt mean Im not allowed to speak. Pastor Warren is a very public figure with a huge influence, and he falls under the mark and avoid category (Romans 16:17-18). Thank you. Judging a minister who has sacrificed so much to enrich peoples lives with the gospel of Christ is disturbing to me. A scroll through Twitter is all you have to do to find out the number of intemperate pastors Southern Baptists have. The Southern Baptist Church Executive Committee announced it will oust five churches for having female pastors, including one of the largest churches in the convention, California's Saddleback . He had a created order for men and women from the beginning. You will also see the four steps a new believer should take. He is telling them it is the cleanliness of the inner man that matters. (I dont promote my own church because I encourage local church membership.) Because as weve seen with Beth Moore, Mothers Day appears to negate the strict biblical mandates of pastoral ministry in liberal American churches. They dont need to know about hell; they live there and in addiction they are prevented from thinking of anything but them selves that is what addiction is. I suggest you take a deep breath and think twice before name-calling and speaking so angrily at someone, even if it is over the internet. I havent seen anything about the quote, and none of the official CR materials Ive gone through have described meditation that way. If we understand what Jesus did for us and why, then, in order to be saved, we need to repent of our sins and believe Jesus is who He says He is. I worked closely with Rick on developing the curriculum and deciding how we would structure it with small groups. He has limited time, limited focus, limited boundaries. We are easily deceived and surrounded by a godless culture. Im not. Just pray for all the liberals daking a belief in the Bible n Jesus Christ. Fourth, you said people have many approaches to teaching Gods Word. The gospel is that were all sinners and are going to Hell, Jesus came to Earth as man and God to live a sinless life and He took the punishment for our sins on the cross. I one of those theologically challenged slobs who actually was saved at a CR. Im assuming you are thinking about Matthew 18:15-17 about handling disputes. I was responsible, and it was my job, with the Holy Spirits help, to lead myself well. 1. However, Warren should be expecting, due to his popularity, that people might venture on his site who are nowhere near one of his campuses. Youre not a good Christian because you are mean. 3.) I sometimes look back at that season and tell people that it was both the most intoxicating and toxic season of my life. Rick Warren certainly seems to be slipping past a bunch of people. Church growth can be through the roof. It was a very exciting time and an insanely crazy time. Stay strong and keep the faith in Jesus. Baptism This is a good thing. Im not going to do a whole post about why female pastors are not biblical. Would you know how to minister to them? I agree that God can do anything through anything. Sadly, he misuses Scripture, apparently affirms female pastors, and he does not give a clear gospel message (sin and death included), despite having a huge audience. How can you get involved? The selection of Andy Wood and his wife, Stacie, to succeed Rick and Kay Warren as leaders of the California-based Saddleback Church has triggered "shock" and "fear" in some who have worked with Wood over concerns over what they characterize as leadership abuse. Finally, you clearly think that I am picking apart someone while not seeing my own mistakes. (* I have read through the leader information when previously considering starting CR in a previous church.). I suppose I stepped on some toes here, but sometimes we need our toes stepped on, right? My job as the pastor of discipleship was to lead the campaign for Saddleback. Also, congratulations on your sobriety. However, I will say that my husband is the pastor of a small, rural Baptist church in Wisconsin. He makes people who prefer authoritarian evangelical structures bristle. Here is the Associated Press:. They finally came to believe on there own they cant do it but that there is one who can and will help them if they ask, and that one is god. Im rooting for him. But, yall, it is so cringey. How long have you been saved? Saddleback, like many mega-churches, uses its online platform (the website) as a marketing strategy with testimonials, self-help sayings (You werent just meant to believe; You were made to belong.), and an almost idolatrous love of the pastor/founder. We actually changed some of our terminology: Instead of considering yourself the leader of this small group, could you just host a group in your home and facilitate? Just that simple language change made a difference. Each person is different and comes at the teaching from their own history, personality, etc. Can you articulate that? The comments just prove the Church is apostate. If hes the one whos always doing the work of the ministry, he will become the bottleneck of the church. Perhaps it will be something else later on.. I think you are utterly and completely wrong about both Rick Warren and Saddleback Church. And I am so happy that you found a church that digs into the meat of the Word. This conversation has been edited for length and clarity. How did you learn that you would be appointed one of the first female pastors for Saddleback Church? While Saddleback does not use the word "Baptist" in its name, the church is affiliated with the 13.7 million-member SBC. Many churches across the U.S. are scrambling in the wake of COVID-19 because they've focused solely on worship instead of other aspects of ministry, Pastor Rick Warren of the California-based Saddleback Church has said. (All the information I share in this section is from the Saddleback Church website, unless otherwise noted.). If only you can use your wisdom appropriately. Until then, keep quiet. My family has a history of alcoholism, and I watched my mom slowly kill herself through her addiction. I pray for him and other pastors often. If you ever do find proof of that, though, I hope youll share it. Even when I was there, I wasnt really there. Have you run across that? Dont let all that fool you. They have no idea that Warren promotes an ecumenical union with other religions in the world. Because after the Orange County megachurch ordained three women as associate pastors, it named Stacie Wood, wife of the churchs senior pastor, Andy Wood, a teaching pastor. I dont know. The book, itself, is not born of Scripture despite containing over 1,200 Bible quotes. There used to be moderate Baptists, conservative Baptists, fundamental Baptists and even liberal Baptists, but everyone allowed each other to worship how they wanted and still cooperated for missions, ministry, evangelism and theological education. Discover how CareLeader.org can help you provide biblical and compassionate pastoral care for struggling and hurting people in your church. I might be the only one with this impression, but this page mixed with the embarrassing overuse of the word purpose all over the website is a little much for me. Saddleback ordained three women on May 6, 2021. Or you can do this, and then your church will explode in size because your pastor is a self-help guru, not a faithful preacher of the Word of God. Here we are again. Christian unity: https://thesetapartwalk.com/christian-unity-is-not-what-you-think-it-is/ Ministry today might be as complex as its ever been in the history of the world. The book makes no mention of sin, the need for a Savior, Jesus life, His death at the cross, or the empty tomb. Yes, theology is important and doctrine matters. Pastors need to have life outside of ministry. Hi, Elizabeth. All we must do is repent and believe. (Im not kidding. Another missing gospel, a focus on something other than Jesus, and mishandling Scripture make for another gospel failing. Adam Greenway, who served as the president of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary from February 2019 to September 2022, was one of many who argued that the decision sets a bad precedent: There seems to be a sentiment in todays SBC that wants to purify the Convention, and sees women pastors as a huge threat to biblical authority and a slippery slope toward liberalism and drift, he wrote on Twitter. Rick Warren and celebrity pastors: https://thesetapartwalk.com/rick-warren-and-the-problem-with-celebrity-pastors/. The Methodists probably will split, and each new denomination probably will fire shots across the other's bow during the 2020s. Did you read the post or just the title? If anything, the scripture additions they use in their program only make it harder for the addict. If you believe that women can and/or should be pastors, I ask you to flip your method of interpreting the Word. Hes literally ushering in a one world religion and setting the stage for the anti-Christ. Guess what.., the men you criticize are actually in the trenches fighting fir the souls of men. To create an account for the Saddleback website, you just need an email address. You have no cause to be angry at me. God created Adam first and then Eve. Then I have them circle the one thats absolutely the most important for keeping their tank filled. So, I can only conclude that the real reason you want me to keep quiet is because you dont like my opinion. Lance Witt is the founder of Replenish ministries and is often referred to as a pastors pastor. Stop sieving the Bible through your worldview and presuppositions. And Im glad to see that you understand the importance of salvation. Does the rubber meet the road? For now, lets move on. Saddleback, like many mega-churches, uses its online platform (the website) as a marketing strategy with testimonials, self-help sayings ("You weren't just meant to believe; You were made to belong."), and an almost idolatrous love of the pastor/founder. Ive seen people completely renewed after salvation. It is your opinion that you find the message to not be clear. If SBC leadership wont speak out against this, then both Saddleback and the SBC would be exposed for poor doctrine. 3. John 4, Romans 16 and the Great Commission as validation for women to evangelize and spread the Gospel. I will do everything I can to help that appeal process. If so, what was the outcome? She must know that God sent His Son, Jesus, to fulfill the law living a sinless life and that Jesus willingly took the punishment for our sin on the cross as the final sacrifice needed. Less than a month after the Los Angeles-based megachurch turned away from biblical complementarianism, senior pastor Rick Warren announced that he is resigning from his position after over 40 years. Because like a lot of pastors, I grew up with an always be available mentality, without many boundaries or limits. I really didnt handle it well, and its part of that journey that resulted ultimately in me doing Replenish. Its beautiful, and Rick Warren often leaves this out a lot. I find myself regularly reminding pastors that before God made them pastors, He made them people. I love the Church, and I engage with people who write me (even when its mean-spirited) because I love them and want to treat them with respect and point them to truth. Thanks for having an open mind and not assuming I am coming at things with bad intentions. In fact, their annual meeting is later this month, and there are plenty of messengers ready to discuss this. Not so much. Before launching Replenish, Lance served twenty years as a senior pastor and six years as an executive/teaching pastor at Saddleback Church. I went to Saddleback in 2000, and Rick Warren wrote The Purpose Driven Life in 2002. I understand how overwhelming addiction is and how impossible it can feel to overcome. CR gives the impression that Jesus is a step toward the goal of recovery rather than being of the utmost importance. But Sabbath is about stopping, and resting, and delighting, and putting things in your life that fill you up. Second, you did not address any of my criticisms with counterarguments. I can appreciate that my blog is not your taste. What version of the Bible is the most original? I left the website knowing that I have a place to have purpose, and Rick Warren is peachy keen. Go to saddleback.com and click on the "Sign In/Sign Up" tab in the upper right corner of the home page. It played out the most during those years at Saddlebacknot with my fellow staff members but at home. Women can use avenues such as serving in church and political appointments to accomplish this charge. When I got to Saddleback, the pace was insanely faster, and the demands were so much more. I didnt have much time for family, and I remember sometimes my wife and I would discuss how I was never there. There have been occasions throughout history where it happened. God is just love. Sabbath to me is different than a day off. Your argument that you got something from what he has written is not a valid one when the discussion is whether or not his teachings are rooted in Scripture. Lets pretend you read this watered down gospel, and you want to be saved. There is a difference between appropriate healthy sacrifice and an unhealthy approach to ministry that is often driven out of people pleasing or need for approval. Our seminary enrollment is down. At the time, we had five or six hundred small groups. 4 Reasons You Need a Break by Lane Sebring He is a public figure who many people look to for spiritual guidance. Created by the team that produces CareLeader.org, GriefShare features many of the experts who contribute to the CareLeader website. You are welcome to disagree and hold to whatever beliefs you hold on the subject, and I respect your opinion. It would prove them right that God doesnt bless that sort of ministry model. Instead, I suggest that you find blogs to read that speak to you and your needs. I sincerely hope you see this as a fair question. Meanwhile, Warrens decision to support female pastors, misuse Scripture in His book and CR, and preach the salvation of Christ without first teaching on sin and Hell is not a mistake. I also hope Pastor Warren gave a clear gospel presentation last Sundayevery Sunday really. Tibayan. Among those who worry about an increasingly authoritarian stance by the SBC is Benjamin Cole, 46, a former Southern Baptist pastor in Texas who has been attending Southern Baptist conventions for nearly 30 years. You dont know hopeless until youve been that hopeless. I am warning believers of a false teacher. A little Joseph Smith, maybe. Of course, this purity of heart is only possible through repentance and belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Difficult is to recognize your own mistakes. Im definitely not straining gnats by pointing out that a world famous pastor gives a weak gospel or maybe even none at all. I am in complete agreement with you on all fronts. In that case, a little help in this area would be needed and responsible of him and his ministry. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. A $300-million (minimum) gondola to Dodger Stadium? Last week, though, Saddleback Church finally did something outright unbiblical. GriefShare is a powerful, Christ-centered grief recovery program. It is the pastors job to equip. God bless you. The Southern Baptist Convention was founded in 1845, conceived as an organization of individual churches with a set of shared beliefs that pool some of their resources, but which are ultimately autonomous. And it fails the people who go through the program whether they leave in recovery or not. They water down the gospel, downplay sin, and cater to worldly preferences instead of focusing on biblical principles. Im really enjoying reading through this forum. I believe that without the salvation he granted me at 26 years old, Id be a another victim of alcoholism. A healthy, sound church is such a gift. When your ministry and church have led over 50000 people to Christ, you may have more right to sit in judgement. Get up to speed with our Essential California newsletter, sent six days a week. And women have been created as suitable helpers to men (Genesis 2:18), not the other way around. I have read this post over and over again because I want to take any critical comments I receive seriously and to check my tone. Lance Witt, who served twenty years as a senior pastor and six years as an executive/teaching pastor at Saddleback Church, shares insights on how pastors can prevent burnout and not make some of the same mistakes he feels he made. Being set apart requires we use discernment to steer clear of unbiblical teaching and false teachers. The gravitational pull toward busyness in ministry is so great, but observing the Sabbath is something pastors need to start building into the rhythm of their lives. Second, you think Im jealous of Rick Warren. People dont have time to spend four Tuesday nights training for a volunteer position. Yes, thats right. Thank you so much for doing what you do. They need to have a compelling, inspiring reason why. Ministry, no matter what size the church, is a team sport. However, for the five years my husband and I spent as Southern Baptists, it seemed like Pastor Warren got a pass for anything questionable about his church. Saddleback Church lead pastor Rick Warren and his congregation said goodbye to their worship music leader for the last 24 years during church services this past weekend at the megachurch's main campus in Lake Forest, Calif. Public teachers do not fall under the Matthew 18 category. People have to be inspired. Those that fail just really arent ready to quit, and those that actually realize from rock bottom a god in Heaven will help, always can quit. It really became an issue in the 1980s. So, even if I didnt think female ordination was a problem, Saddleback is still in the wrong. Julie you are nothing except discerning n humbly speaking the truth. No gospel to be found, but he does invite the reader to accept Christ. We may not only be losing Saddleback Church and Rick Warren. Paul wanted to stick to the Faith when others beliefs crept in. None of the churches gave a clear gospel presentation. I am passionate about encouraging Christian women to grow in their faith, live godly lives, and discern truth from all the lies and noise of the world. Wow is a good word for your comment. Im not the first or last Christian to address this topic.