After all, we know its not uncommon for published velocities to be, well, optimistic. This is the fundamental difference between 22 Nosler and 224 Valkyrie: Nosler seemed to be chasing either 22-250 or the most impressive muzzle velocity numbers for a press release, while Federal, apparently having learned from experiences such as the 327 Federal debacle, went after downrange performance with heavier bullets. We'd go pick it up with tweezers, q-tips and zip-lock bags Yeah! Weight: 9 lb., 3 oz. We have good G7 numbers from Berger for their VLD Target line. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. JP is not a custom, factory gun with no upgrades or changes. As many of you know, traditionally the best bullets are not found in .277 caliber. Yes with cheaper options you run a larger risk of getting a lemon but more often than not this is not an unattainable goal. this sucker was full of holes. How many factory bolt action rifles do you see in the U.S. in .222 vs .223. I don't think that the T-Zone shooting works on hogs, because of how damn thick the top of their head is. The JP rifle handled all four loads equally well with the same gas block setting. Finally, I don't know what barrel life will be like. The .224 Valkyrie uses a faster 1:7 twist, thereby giving the ability to So, they're the same, right? ComparisonYou are probably wondering where the 224 Valkyrie is positioned when all the commercially available cartridges compatible with the AR-15 platform are considered. I'll try to find the data on that - I've got a bunch of Valk data in my thread on that thing, and it's comparison to the Grendel popular loads. With every passing industry trade show, we are introduced to the next big thing, or little thing, as the case may be. You see, the 75gr Full Metal Jacket load the "cheap stuff" from Federal for the 224 Valkyrie is the former, and 7.62x51 M80 ball out of a 24.8" barrel the latter. I just received my Krieger/ white oak 24 inch barrel. WebRight now I wouldn't touch .224 Valkyrie with a 10 foot pole. All four 224 Valkyrie factory loads were tested in each rifle, and surprisingly, there was not a lot of variation in velocities even though there was a 2-inch difference in barrel length. Our calibers from .257-inch up to .338-inch have served us well for decades, but the .277-inch, 7mm, and .308-inch calibers have gotten the lions share of work from deer hunters. Cartridges are often unfairly compared because shooters tend to look at things from a generalized perspective. It has succeeded because it offers excellent performance, low recoil, solid backing from a major ammunition manufacturer, and enables the use of long, high BC bullets in a semi-auto rifle magazine. At a touch over $2k price tag i would expect nothing less (and the few i have had the pleasure to handle have not disappointed) but you are still in the custom range in my opinion. Note that 22 Nosler brass currently costs 20 cents more per case than a loaded round of 224 Valkyrie. Though I was originally considering 13" with an exposed gas block, Charlie at Geissele suggested to me that I use a 15" handguard, and I'm glad that I listened to his advice. Think again. Sure, 3500fps sounds cool on paper, and if you want to have to carry your steel targets even farther out to avoid cratering and damage, pushing every bullet out at that velocity can be fun. Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. he stunk too bad for me to mess with. However, the 22 Nosler has a smaller rim diameter, the same as a .223 Rem. While I like the sound of 308 on steel, it was just plain easier to make hits with the 224 Valkyrie. He's gotta be 8 feet long, stretched up like that - because I know you ain't a 5-footer yourself That Valk finally did it - what were you loaded with? Well, just after the turn of the 21st century, an enterprising wildcatter from Illinois by the name of Roy Winnett created the 22 PDK (Prairie Dog Killer.) (l.) The hallmark load for the 224 Valkyrie is the 90-grain Sierra MatchKing, which at 2,700 fps has set the new standard for long-range performance from an AR-15. So, even if we don't know why the 6.8 SPC couldn't have just been the 224 Valkyrie or 224 SPC in the first place, thus offering an increase in terminal effectiveness AND an increase in max effective range, we do know that 224 Valkyrie isn't really a brand new cartridge just brand new to the world of standardized cartridges. But the biggest difference is one of cost, and that difference is enough to make the choice clear, at least to me. And with its greater immunity to wind drift, the 224 The biggest up-front cost of getting into a new caliber is the rifle or perhaps the barrel/bolt/magazine combination if it's designed to fit in an existing platform, but the biggest long term cost if you actually shoot your new rifle is the ammo. NO. Pasted as rich text. To help you get caught up, we've put together a quick guide with all the basics you need to know about .224 Valkyrie rifle cartridges. agree with southpaw. Admittedly, the designers were looking to balance external and terminal ballistics, as was pointed out to me by Zak Smith of Thunder Beast, who has written extensively about the 6.8 SPC. Now that you understand the genealogy of the 224 Valkyrie, what might surprise you is where its inspiration came from. And I have shot the 224V to beyond 2000 yards with success. When gusts died down, I had no problem hitting at distance with either rifle, but when the wind was rapidly changing speed, it was easier to get on target with the Valkyrie than with a 308 Win rifle of similar length, even when shooting match ammunition in the 308. Speaking of cases, they're shortened, necked down, necked up, or modified as the designers see fit, and very few new cartridge cases are not related in some way to a past case even if that case dates to pre-World War I days - take, for example, the recently introduced 26, 28, and 30 Nosler cartridges, all based on the 404 Jeffery from 1905. I've had a box of Berger 90gr VLDs sitting around for almost a decade, and it looks like I'll finally be able to use it. Sure, it's not match grade stuff and it won't shoot like Nosler Custom Competition loads, but at half the price, you can spend more time dialing in your skills and getting to know the performance of the cartridge. But if you keep an eye on the Facebook groups the valkyrie gets so much flak for its accuracy. However, the new millennium trend is shorter, sharp-shouldered cartridges that will accept high BC bullets, and still fit in short actions. Looks like between 1100-1200 foot pounds and about 2400 fps depending on barrel length. Because 224 Valkyrie has a different pressure curve than 223 Remington, the gas system must be a different length. 224 Valkyrie bolt gun Belt FedNovember 26, 2020 in Hunting, Ok the hog from hell story. The good thing that come from this is i didnt have to put new undies on. it's Arkysaw. The hog from hell, 224 Valkyrie vs 400 pound hog - Hunting - 308AR.com Community All Activity Home The Sportsmens Den Hunting The hog from hell, 224 1200 lbs of energy, or pretty close to that - pretty scary that it takes more than that to get through the hide and fat cap on that big bastard. 1-1.5 MOA most folks are fine with an AR. But I have found this particular 308 AR to deliver very good accuracy, more than enough to consistently hit steel targets within 500 yards remember, we're shooting big steel targets, not comparing tiny groups on paper. 224 Valkyrie Though still shy of the Creedmoor ballistically, from an AR-15 its as close as youre going to getat least until something new and even more specialized comes along. can be converted to 22 Nosler by changing the barrel and switching to 6.8 SPC magazines. Both cartridges are supported by data, with the 22 Nosler data coming straight from Nosler and some of the best 224 Valkyrie data coming from Sierra Bullets. Varmint hunters - remember the 22 Nosler 55gr load at 3500fps from a 24" barrel? The 75gr FMJ stuff smacked steel with authority, a notable difference from my experiences with shooting 5.56 or 223 at these medium ranges of 300 to 600 yards. Even if we acknowledge that most of the Nosler product is match grade stuff with a heavier match bullet and move up to affordable brass cased 223 Rem with a 75gr BTHP, comparable Nosler ammo costs more than twice as much. Have yet to see a 224v that shoots well thats not a custom build. This is a 26 inch 1-7 twist McGowen barrel. While accuracy testing the 90-grain Match load, there were five failures to feed and one blown primer. Both rifles had effectively identical optics, and while the 308 Win AR is set up as more of a fighting carbine with Magpul MOE handguards and a fixed front sight base whereas the 224 Valkyrie is more precision oriented with a 15" free float handguard, there's nothing stopping me from forcing the 224 Valkyrie into the fighting carbine role or the 308 Win rifle into the precision role. No they arent average guns. I told him you will have to pull that hide off in strips. 224 Valkyrie vs 6.5 Creedmoor: Which Cartridge is Better? While Im sure no one at Federal will admit it, what the company really did was apply the Creedmoor concept to the 22 PDK/22 Nosler. Well, at least it's a headshot. This greatly reduced recoil allowed me to get back on target faster and better follow my shots at distance. The initial screw up by Federal is a valid point. 224 Valkyrie The bullets bonded construction allows for deep penetration. Nosler does a lot of comparing 223 Rem with 22 Nosler, and it's true that the 22 Nosler kicks the butt of a lot of standard 223 Rem loads, with their quoted velocities of 2650 for a 75gr bullet out of 223 Rem and 2950 for a 75 out of an 18" 22 Nosler. If you arent mag limited like with an AR, there are FAR better options in a bolt gun. Of course, this is true with many cartridges, and is likely to be true with 224 Valkyrie. 224 Valkyrie vs You can see literally 99% of the same velocity with 223 Rem, as Hornady's Superformance Varmint line offers a 53gr V-Max at 3465 out of a 24" barrel. The 6.5 CM pushes a 140gr bullet at around 2600fps. 224 Valkyrie Rather than use existing bullets found in .22-250 or 223 Rem, they brought in four loads with a few new bullets and a few holdovers. I have not had the chance to run it to 1K or beyond yet. It offers dramatically improved extended range trajectories over all other AR-15 cartridges with roughly half the recoil of .308-based long range cartridges offering comparable ballistics. But there are two things missing from that equation: 5.56 loads and Hornady Superformance. The Federal Premium 90-grain .224 Valkyrie has a muzzle velocity of 2,700 fps. We can see this from their load recommendations. There is, however, a sizable contingent of the gun owning population that can benefit from the advantages of 224 Valkyrie, and even some of the folks who would be "fine" with 5.56 would be better off with 224 Valkyrie. (r.) For varmints and such, Federal is offering a 60-grain Nosler Ballistic Tip load with a muzzle velocity of about 3,200 fps for the 224 Valkyrie. This gives everyone options, and the starting price for some 75gr FMJ 224 Valkyrie is about 50 cents a round. so i flip the safety of and shoulder the gun and rip off 3 rounds in him. Is .224 Valkyrie going to die out could probably make it happen with 153's at around 2400fps. If you're serious about precision shooting, you probably reload, and the 224 Valkyrie makes even more sense there. Why .277 or 6.8? However, since the Valkyrie can handle heavier bullets with a higher BC, at extended distancelike at 1,000 yardsthe Valkyrie is the better performer. If your needs are generalized, this makes sense. The Valkyrie is a specialized cartridge and its only real competition is the 6.5 Grendel, which generates 72 percent more recoil, goes subsonic sooner, drifts more in the wind, and is even more expensive to shoot. While I am not saying that the 308 Win rifle is difficult to shoot - I've turned it over to numerous new shooters without worry that they'll end up with scope bite - it is undeniable that the 224 Valkyrie had far less recoil. How many threads on this forum do you see for building rifles in .222? The 224 Valkyrie is based on the 6.8 SPC case and retains the same rim diameter. The only reliability issues experienced during the firing of hundreds of rounds of 224 Valkyrie ammunition were with the Savage Recon LRP. Now, while this might not sound like much, it was just enough to allow extremely high-BC bullets to be loaded, without seating them past the ogive. If available components are a major deciding factor nothing is as available as 223 ammo and brass. Daily people ask about BCA, PSA and what ever other budget AR mfg. Well, it might shock you to learn that a bullet with a G1 ballistic coefficient of .399 and a muzzle velocity of 2850fps has a really, really similar trajectory to a bullet with a G1 ballistic coefficient of .393 and a muzzle velocity of 2800fps. Similarly, and particularly with magazine-fed weapons, is the problem of magazine compatibility. Enter Federal and their 224 Valkyrie. One Well, there is something to that, to be sure. Finally, theres the bullet. Don't get me wrong - I'd LOVE to get a hog like that with the M-2!!! However, both cartridges, from the look of their cases, will have decreased barrel life compared to 223 Rem. The FGMM 308 was of course more expensive, but let's set that aside for a moment. For starters, its much less expensive to modify an existing case than it is to design a new one. I bought a cheap upper and with the American Eagle stuff it shoots about MOA. Power: .224 Valkyrie rounds are available with ballistic tips, transferring more energy on impact for increased lethality when you're hunting game. My personal preference for game I would eat (if I hunted any more) would be for Barnes to make a heavier .224" diameter TSX, but using the existing 70gr TSX projectiles in 224 Valkyrie should offer some extended engagement distances due to moderately increased velocities. I guess I dont expect mass produced rifles to shoot like custom guns.. Theyre often afraid a new cartridge will do something better than their favorite, or the one theyre tooled up to support.The 224 Valkyrie is a perfect example. While this bullet will maintain supersonic speeds well past any range where people hunt with .224" diameter projectiles, it should also make for quick, ethical kills of game within the "normal" hunting distances (under 300 yards). Thought a Beretta shotgun was out of your budget? They continued to fight, and fight, and fight, we tried to separate them, but the only thing worse than a hog fight is probably "horse breeding", (that's the ugliest damn thing I've ever seen in my life)! There are many different kinds of pistols out there, and whats right for one person might not be right for you. 224 Valkyrie Range TestingModern shooters are like most people: Theyre more interested in what something can do for them than its history. You cannot paste images directly. This was even with the gas system of the 224 Valkyrie shut off so that I could ensure I didn't lose any brass. The 90gr VLD has a G7 of .274, and taking the 18" velocity numbers from Bill Marr's work and running them through the JBM Ballistics calculator, we see that a 90 from an 18" barrel 224 Valkyrie will still be supersonic just past 1050 yards. To find out, I tested two rifles chambered for it. Yeah, here we go, 98 will be your back-up. One big difference between the Creedmoor and Valkyrie is the increased splash at distance, whether they're misses or hits you simply get more splash from the creed. His wheeler was hurtin, i could hear it bogging down. One reamer grinder screwed things up. For the guy shooting beyond 300, theres a distinct advantage in wind deflection. There are differences between the two in terms of ballistics, and I'm going to discuss those in detail. Politifact Paints False Picture While Claiming Trump Paints False Picture, Kyle Rittenhouse Acted in Lawful Self Defense in Kenosha. For hunting edible game there's a 90gr JSP Fusion load, and varmint hunters have the option of a 60gr wait for it NOSLER Ballistic Tip load. WebThe .224 Valkyrie (5.641 mm) [5] cartridge is a .22 caliber (5.6 mm) rimless bottlenecked intermediate rifle cartridge, developed by Federal Premium Ammunition to rival the performance of the .22 Nosler, while still being compatible with modern sporting rifles (MSRs). the bullet went in his jaw and came out the back of his neck. On the other hand, the .224 Valkyrie has a shorter case length than the .223 Remington and 22 Nosler, which helps explain why the .224 Valkyrie can shoot longer bullets than the other two, but still has the same maximum overall length. At the same time, like the 6.8 Remington SPC, the .224 Valkyrie has a rim diameter of .422. And with the 60-grain Ballistic Tip load, real-world velocities fell about 100 fps short. it loves the cheap federal 75 tmj that easily plink away at 500yd and hit a 12in plate every time. Often, especially at 500 and beyond, one must listen very carefully for the telltale sound of a hit when using 223 Rem. It might be able to fire 55s at over 3250fps! i am going to put a scope on a 308 ar i have and use it. Most people seem to buy ARs for home defense or plinking, both of which the AR in 5.56 excels in doing. he had his grand daughter and wanted her to see it. The following sections go a bit deeper into the differences between the two cartridges from a ballistic perspective. If a cartridge is created with drastically different dimensions, it will not work with currently available magazines. 224 Valkyrie and 22 CM are both designed for heavy bullets and long range. It is ballistically superior to anything that is cheaper, and cheaper than anything that is ballistically superior (and even then, we're talking big differences in price for small differences in ballistics). He also told me that no one has been having stability problems with the new bullet. The recoil was a moot point in this test, and most hunters wont wear On the other hand, a 1/7 224 Valkyrie should be just fine with, say, 53gr V-Max, and be very flat within the typical varmint hunting distances. we all would, I'd just like to get my "Dirty Little Thirty" running, that thing handles like a Merkel over and under, perfect for "wing shooting" wild boar! User Agreement 224 Valkyrie No, it's not entirely fair to compare 18" with 20" barrels, but it's not likely that you would see more than a 50fps bump by going to a 20" 22 Nosler barrel. id be in a world of hurt. You are failing to comprehend the point. 224 Valkyrie .224 Valkyrie rounds come in various grains and styles designed for competition shooting, hunting varmints and taking down medium-sized game. 224 Valkyrie vs. 5.5645 Trajectory. This novel design from Federal Premium is a fast-stepping .224-caliber cartridge designed for the AR-15, capable of pushing a 75-grain bullet to 3,000 fps. These cartridges work with rifles built on the AR-15 platform you only need the correct barrel, bolt and magazine. That doesn't sound cool at all in a press release. A good comparison would be the Grendel will give you AR-308 ballistics and the Valkyrie will give you high performance bolt rifle 308 ballistics. All-new 224 Valkyrie isnt just another cartridge. It also made shooting far more enjoyable. Sales for a cartridge created in a caliber for which there are not many suitable bullets would be anemic. You are using an out of date browser. SHOP NOW. However, the Recon just did not like the 60-grain Ballistic Tip load. It may not display this or other websites correctly. In 2017, recognizing an overwhelming need for .224-based cartridges supporting heavier, longer and more aerodynamic bullets, Federal Ammunition developed the .224 Valkyrie. If you were, before the 22 Nosler, wishing your 223 Rem rifle was just a little faster, then you are likely very happy with the 22 Nosler concept. This was an interesting contrast for me, as the two rifles were roughly the same size and shape and could conceivably be used for the same purposes sure, 308 Win has some advantages, but as I soon found out, so did 224 Valkyrie. The introduction of the 22 Nosler (300fps faster than 223 Rem! Look at what is arguably the most popular new rifle cartridge of the last decade or so the 6.5 Creedmoor. Jimmy said ill take him, i said ok lets get him to camp. Out of an AR, maybe. Its explosive expansion provides a violent energy release on impact for quick kills on varmints and predators. You keep running into big fuckers like that, and you just need to hunt with the M-2HB. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. One of the great things about the 224 Valkyrie is that it can be used in both AR-15 and AR-308 platforms. you can think of. 224 Valkyrie 277 SIG Fury Demystified remains the best option in the AR-15. However, to make the cartridge compatible with long and slender bullets, with ridiculously high ballistic coefficients (BCs), and with standard 6.8 SPC magazines, Federal shortened the 6.8 SPC case, set the shoulder back with a 30-degree taper, and necked it down to accept .224-caliber bullets. Even with heavy bullets, one can expect 5.56 NATO loads with 75 or 77gr bullets to be traveling at around 2700 from a 16" and 2800 from a 20" barrel, cutting the "300fps" advantage of 22 Nosler in half. On steel It was great enough of a mark to see pretty clearly on scrap paper . Accordingly, you haven't and probably won't see a whole lot of super light, super-fast loads for the 224 Valkyrie, because those more lightly constructed bullets have a reputation for not holding up to being spun so much. The cartridge's heavier weight adds velocity for improved resistance to wind-drift and better ballistic coefficient, helping you reach out and accurately connect with targets at greater distances. How does it do in the real world? I see the Valkyrie as an affordable factory round for practice that is ballistically similar to the 224 Valkyrie is designed to perform with a twist rate of 1/7 or even faster many barrels are available with a 1 in 6.5" twist. about that time a guy in the camp that ask me what i shot rode his wheeler down to my stand to help. Assuming a constant 10mph wind, the difference in wind drift between the 22 Nosler 85 and the 224 Valkyrie shooting a Berger 90 VLD at 1000 yards is about the same as the difference between Hornady's 5.56 Superformance 75 and the 22 Nosler 85 RDF. 224 vs 243 diameter in the next few WebAt the 1,000 yard marker, the 224 Valkyrie has a bullet drop of -345.8 compared to -475.7 for the 223 Remington. For long-range shooting, the only commercially available AR-15 cartridge that can compare is the 6.5 Grendel. MPA is tweaking feed lips and had designed a new follower for the standard .308 mags. I personally think the 6.5 grendel is a better choice than 224v. He sure did eat good though!! The main reason for the drastic differences in trajectory at 1,000 Talk to a fellow shooter. i also use the 88eldm, still working a load that performs significantly better than box hornady, but box ammo isnt bad. In fact, 50 cents a shot for 224 Valkyrie is not far away from current prices for surplus 7.62x51 NATO ammunition. Predator hunters and those needing the flattest available cartridge inside 300 yards are in this group. Both Federal and Nosler appear to be using G1 drag profiles for their trajectory calculations, which give more optimistic numbers than one is likely to encounter in the field. The big difference, however, was recoil. There are simply too many versatile and purpose-built munitions to choose from. These are accurate numbers for some 223 Rem loads. I was relieved to see that, contrary to my fears, 224 Valkyrie did not depend on long barrels for its performance. Incidentally, if you combine the overall performance of both rifles, you get an average precision of 1.40 MOA, thus confirming my 1.5-MOA average postulation. This is a 3.5x35 fixed power scope meant for use on the M240 machine gun and has a ballistic drop compensation reticle to match. Increased velocity helps everything except for felt recoil and barrel life. If hunting with a .224" diameter bullet is legal in your state, I think the Fusion offering is going to be very effective. 2650-2700 is doable with the 140's with mild pressure. Not quite. Long-Range AR Rifle Options: 6.5mm Creedmoor and And it uses 308 Brass ! I have tested the 62gr 5.56 Fusion load and its 62/64gr Speer Gold Dot cousins, and think the 90gr 224V load will be extremely effective for deer and other similarly sized animals. Neither can compare to the performance of 22-250 from the same length barrel, either in standard or "Superformance" variant. Also, it's cheaper. Yes, there's now an 85 grain 22 Nosler load, but that's just getting started for the 224 Valkyrie, with 90gr factory loads and the new 95gr Sierra MatchKing available soon. The Savage Recon LRP averaged 1.75 inches for five, five-shot groups with all four factory loads. Yes, there are lots of .277-caliber bullets to choose from, but those that will work within the magazine and case restrictions of the 6.8 SPC in the AR-15 platform are few.
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